Remember those who are overseas in our country's service. Drink a toast today to those that have gone on before us and tell a story or two about them in their honor.
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The SA80 is a poor design and prone to a lot of problems. The M16/M4 isn't superior in ALL regards, be it is in MOST of them
When dudes raised on the SA80 switch over to M4s (and even the M16A4 fence-post) they love them, especially when I show them the versatility of the system.
It is heavy. It feels like an AK, weight-wise. It is primarily constructed from stamped sheet metal.
The trigger has serious issues, and under a heavy firing schedule are prone to failing. I have personally seen three guns go down almost simultaneously with the same problem.
The handguard has a mounting screw that goes through the gas-block on the barrel which makes the gun very susceptable to POI change due to pressure on the handguard from aggressive hold, VFG use, or supported positions. This is not changed with the DD handguards- which have their own problems. They are prone to loosening of the retention screws (one through the gas-block and one that presses into the front of the receiver), which results in drastic POI variance. The gas block is exposed, and it happens to be right where the support hand wants to be for good front-end control. The top rail is lower than the top of the gas-block which severely limits a 12:00 light mount.
It is highly trigger sensitive and prone to having consistently low groups during rapid fire or rapid trigger manipulation.
It is no more accurate than an M16 or M4 when compared with similar optics.
The line of sight over bore is really high, especially when using a piggybacked MRD.
The NATO rail is severely lacking.
The SUSAT is a nightmare.
I have not seen the magazine well bend. However, I have seen what we would call the "lower receiver" (TMH here) bow outward which results in the magazine over-seating (like crappy 10 round 1911 mags do) during speed reloads.
The weapon can be fired left-handed, but only if you are very very careful and have a laser.
The rearward weight distribution makes the gun bouncy during multi-shot engagements and auto. I can hold 20 rounds on an IPSC on FA (full auto)with an M4A1, about 10 to 12 with the SA80.
The lack of adjustability of the LOP (length of pull) makes the gun sub-optimal for CQB. Everybody touts the thing for being so short, but the LOP is barely shorter than an M16A2. Combined with the zero amount of eye-relief of the SUSAT; CQB work with it when wearing armor sucks unless you want to rely solely on the laser (if you get one) or until the ACOGS come in (which have a MRD piggy-backed). The long LOP prevents the 3-man from carrying in the high port, which results in a less than speedy 3-man's gun in the room/fight.
It is virtually unusable with a single-point sling though the issue 3-point essentially configures into a single point, it isn't really. The sling sucks hard, but that will probably be a non-issue since we do have options.
The pistol grip is uncomfortable unless, get this, you hold it with all of your fingers. That's right- it's more comfortable to carry in a non-firing grip than with a finger straight and off the trigger.
The position and type of safety requires the shooter to use the left hand to engage the safety. It's a cross-bolt safety just forward of the trigger guard.
The mag catch is stiff and only operable with the left hand.
The placement of the mag release and charging handle (left side and right side, respectively) means that you have to flip the gun back and forth for stoppage reduction instead of just canting it and running it. The bolt-catch is handy though. Unfortunately, the bolt release is tiny and requires a bit of dexterity to consistently manipulate it.
The short handguard makes it impossible the grip out on the rail where you are most efficient, but you have to hit the safety with the left hand anyway, so it's just a forced compromise anyway. It feels like a pan of water during SOM (shooting on the move).
The trigger mechanism is slightly less complicated than the interior of a combine harvester, and prone to all kinds of fouling and unnecessary play, resulting in a great trigger (sarcasm).
The buttstock is ribbed, but doesn't stick in place during firing like a decent stock should. It is also heavily curved which makes running in the frontal pocket with armor more difficult than it needs to be.
You need two hands to work the gun and a functioning right side hand, arm, and clear line of sight to the right eye. This implies a lot of of failure points when in unconventional positions.
I taught the lead urban combat course in both marksmanship and tactics in the UK to instructor-level personnel from everywhere from SFSG to FPGRM. To a man they are senior and all have multiple tours in Iraq and the 'Ghan. I work with senior guys, guys that have been around and done stuff, many of which carried weapons systems other than the SA80. All of them are vocal about the fact that the SA80 needs to go away and be replaced with something that is actually made to fight with.
Yes, we are using A2s. There are no A1s, as they were all upgraded to the A2 configuration. Yes, I know the difference.
The SA80 is a bit better with the ACOG, but it doesn't do a damned thing about the problems with the system. The mount is a weak point. The ACOG needs to be cantilevered forward with the mount due to the rail being too short, and there are numerous accounts of a dropped rifle breaking or bending the mount. Implying that system would be fixed with an optic is grasping for straws and trying to obscure the real issues.
I have sufficient experience in CQB to say that the short overall length of the SA80 is not an advantage over an M4, especially considering that the length of pull is not adjustable. Most movements within the enclosure will be done from a compressed position with the barrel pointing either upward or down. Virtually no actions will be taken with the gun up unless covering a danger area or threat, in which case the shorter OAL does nothing. Indexing the gun sucks since the bolt travel will cause the cocking handle to strike the bicep if brought into an under-arm position, which means that I can actually make the M4 protrude a shorter distance and still be usable for extremely close contact. I have hopped into and out of vehicles a few times and I can positively say that the SA80 is barely better than a SAM-R (USMC's version of the Mk11 SPR essentially), and no better than an M4 in those conditions.
Why can't people be honest about things like guns? The SA80 is a POS. A better gun backed by better training would yield a better result. Why don't people want that to happen? As it is, HK is running out of SA80 receivers (I forgot to note, they are prone to cracking), which means that the MOD (Ministry of Defense) will have to accelerate their selection of a new system. I know this because I was in a tri-service (British) meeting about the topic.
and where one man would stand alone, to defy an empire
and bring peace upon the land. Even if afterwards he couldn't
find his pants and could barely remember the public officials that he
punched.
The President of the United States of America takes pleasure in presenting the Silver Star to Gunnery Sergeant Robert J. Blanton, United States Marine Corps, for conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity in action against the enemy while serving as Platoon Sergeant, First Platoon, Company A, Third Reconnaissance Battalion, I Marine Expeditionary Force (Forward), on 10 August 2008, in support of Operations IRAQI FREEDOM FY-08. As an element of Gunnery Sergeant Blanton's platoon began clearing what appeared to be an abandoned house, it became heavily engaged with enemy small arms fire from a strong point located inside the building. Gunnery Sergeant Blanton immediately repositioned his element's vehicles to support the engaged element. Bravely exposing himself to enemy fire, he dismounted his vehicle and began engaging insurgents as they presented themselves. Using initiative and quick thinking, Gunnery Sergeant Blanton returned to his vehicle and directed it to ram the building's outer wall in order to expose additional insurgents within the building. He then led a small group of Marines to clear the building and recover a wounded Marine trapped inside. During the recovery, Gunnery Sergeant Blanton courageously transitioned from his rifle to his pistol and began engaging insurgents located in close proximity to his position. Once the recovery was complete, Gunnery Sergeant Blanton coordinated with supporting aircraft on station to deliver precision guided munitions directly on the insurgent stronghold, effectively ending the engagement. By his bold leadership, wise judgment, and complete dedication to duty, Gunnery Sergeant Blanton reflected great credit upon himself and upheld the highest traditions of the Marine Corps and the United States Naval Service.
"Outgunned"By Cindy FisherStars and Stripes
Published: June 14, 2009
The chaos for Gunnery Sgt. Robert J. Blanton continued long after the firefight.
"That night, I couldn’t sleep. I was trying to remember everything that happened," the 3rd Reconnaissance Battalion Marine said. He also tried to come to grips with losing Sgt. Michael H. Ferschke, 22. He was restless, reliving the battle with insurgents in the Al Jazeera Desert outside Baghdad.
"For a few of us, it’s like flipping through a photo album. OK, I remember that one, then I see another picture and try to place it and I remember now," Blanton said months after the Aug. 10, 2008, battle.
Some photos are out of focus and he struggles to put them in order. He recalls the battle lasting an hour and a half; others remember it as only 45 minutes.
But, Blanton knows this: Had Ferschke not been on point, going into the house first, drawing the fire of about 10 insurgents and allowing the rest of his team to enter the room and return fire, the day would have been a lot deadlier for the Marines.
"If Sgt. Ferschke hadn’t done what he did," Blanton said. "I’m pretty sure others would have lost their lives."
No sign of trouble
The first days of August were hectic. First Platoon lived out of trucks while conducting counterinsurgency operations, said Capt. Luke Lazzo, 27, commander of Company A.
Aug. 10, a Friday, was another blistering day in "a desolate, what looks to be forgotten, part of Iraq," said Sgt. Chris Bova, 21. Temperatures hovered in the 120s.
By late afternoon, the team was looking for a place to bed down for the night, Sgt. Alexander Tice remembered
"We were tired and pissed off," said Tice, 21. "It was so hot."
The team came upon an abandoned adobe out in the middle of nowhere — or something that could easily pass for it. As team leader, Ferschke decided it would be the last house they cleared before calling it a day.
"We had been sweeping every house we passed," Bova said. "This was just as deserted as the rest of them."
He remembers people were fishing on the lake a mile beyond the L-shaped house. Nothing unusual; no sign of trouble.
Tice, as point man, was usually first to enter buildings.
"Every house before that, I was the first one in. But that day,[Ferschke] was just happy to be there and just went to the front," Tice said.
The last moment Tice spoke with Ferschke is a crystal-clear shot in his "photo album" of the day — a moment he recounted with reddened eyes and a halting voice at Ferschke’s memorial on Camp Schwab in February. "He turned to me and smiled and said, ‘Let’s do this, boys."
He went in.
Ferschke was met with a hail of AK-47 fire, but plowed on to a corner of the room, drawing everything to him.
"I don’t know how he didn’t fall," Tice said.
"It was all that Monster (energy drink) he drank," Bova said, looking at Tice and chuckling.
With the insurgents focused on Ferschke, the rest of the team made it to an opposing corner where they returned fire. The Marines were exposed while the enemy was firing AKs and throwing grenades from protected positions.
Through the smoke and dust, Tice saw Ferschke go down.
No time to be scared
"We were outnumbered and outgunned," Tice said.
He knew he had to get his guys out of there. Tice had the team fall back to their vehicles, returning fire on their way out.
Soon, the rest of the platoon converged from the surrounding area.
The radios came alive.
They nailed down where Ferschke was "so they could direct their fire away from his position as no one knew if he was dead or not," Tice said.
Though Tice didn’t talk about it, he was wounded as he returned fire to the enemy.
"An enemy inside tossed a grenade out the door and he took fragments in his heel," Blanton remembered adding that Tice didn’t let that slow him down as he stayed in the fight till it was done.
It was the first firefight for all but four or five in the platoon. Everyone kept their cool, Tice recalled.
"There wasn’t time to be scared."
Sgt. George Callum dismounted, firing at insurgents and identifying targets for his Humvee’s main weapon. (Marines would not talk about the specific weapons they were using.)
Blanton recalled Callum darting from one end of his vehicle to the other shooting the whole time. After the battle, Marines counted about 20 hits on the Humvee but Callum never took a hit, Blanton recounted with admiration.
But the house, with its thick walls and small windows, proved to be an effective barricade for the insurgents.
Blanton was in a 7-ton truck carrying the platoon’s supplies. He told the driver to ram the building.
"That really opened it up," Bova recalled, leaning forward as he talked.
As the driver of the 7-ton backed the truck out of the building about 40 feet, a suicide bomber boiled out of the house, headed for the 7-ton.
Blanton thanked God for his truck’s design, which included door handles that were difficult to operate. The bomber couldn’t figure out how to open the door, he said.
Cpl. James Bunney was in a vehicle to the left and rear of Blanton’s 7-ton.
"He had a vantage point when the individual came out to try and gain access to our (truck)," Blanton recalled.
Bunney took aim with his weapon and mowed the bomber down.
As the bomber slumped off the truck he detonated himself, an explosion that rocked the truck but did no damage to its interior.
"At that point, the adrenaline was up and we didn’t know what happened," Blanton said. The truck out of commission, it was time to slug it out at close range.
Then, Blanton’s driver saw an insurgent in the building who was surrendering.
"We took charge of that guy," Blanton recalled matter-of-factly. He helped secure the prisoner before getting back to the fight.
Callum moved from a covered position and a grenade went off several yards from him, knocking him down but leaving him unharmed.
Enemy fire let up a bit. Their thoughts turned to getting Ferschke out of there.
Lazzo and Blanton led separate teams back into the building.
"All my thoughts were on getting him out as fast as we could," Lazzo said.
Someone saw an insurgent priming a grenade amidst the rubble and yelled "Grenade." One Marine jumped from the building to avoid the blast, but Callum used his body to shield a fellow Marine.
When they got to Ferschke, he was gone.
After they got his body out of the building, Blanton called in close air support. Game over.
As one Marine put it, it was a "trial by fire."
‘You just do it’
"Everybody out there was exposed to enemy fire just trying to get the job done and defeat the enemy," Callum said with a shrug of his shoulders as he downplayed his actions. "We just focused on the job."
Several attributed their success — their survival — to training and muscle memory.
"In extreme stress, you just go off. Your body just reacts from what it knows. It’s muscle memory," Bova said.
"You work as a team. You don’t even think; you just do it," Tice added.
Bova and Tice say there have been tougher battles in Iraq in the last few years, and tougher battles being fought in Afghanistan now.
If this had happened in 2006, it might not have attracted as much notice, Bova said.
But their battle happened in 2008, a relatively quiet year in Iraq. And in the first four months of their seven-month deployment they had little interaction with the enemy, the two said. Stumbling on to an enemy cell like they did — and losing Ferschke — are what make this battle stand out, Tice and Bova said.
But every servicemember knows that no matter how quiet it seems, it’s still a war zone, Bova said.
"At every building, the adrenaline still goes up. You go from yellow to red. If you’re ever at green, you’re wrong," he asserted, leaning forward to make his point.
Nine Marines were awarded Navy Commendations or Navy Marine Corps Achievement Medals with "V" devices, one without the "V." Blanton received a Silver Star, and Lazzo and Callum were each awarded a Bronze Star with a "V" device for valor. Ferschke was posthumously awarded a Bronze Star with "V."
Looking back, the memories are foggy, perhaps intentionally, Bova said shaking his head. It’s his way of coping.
Tice and Blanton don’t have that luxury. For them, it’s still a photo album.
"Some things, I don’t remember at all," Tice said looking away. "A lot of things are clear as day. Even now."
Letter as sent to the Chairman of the Dutch House of Representatives
Date: November 8, 2011
Subject: Dissolution procurement agreement of new police service pistol.
Hereby I inform you that today I have with immediate effect decided to dissolve the agreement with the manufacturer of the new police service pistol, the company SIG-Sauer.
After the signing of the agreement the manufacturer prepared the pistol for mass production. Therefore the pistol had to be tested again. Furthermore the police had to test the pistol with the new police-cartridge (Action NP), as was communicated in the procurement procedure. This cartridge was only been available after the procurement and differs only minimally from the cartridge (Action 4) that was used during the procurement procedure. After the testing process was concluded three times with negative results the manufacturer was formally notified that it was not in compliance.
Unfortunately after the negative result of the fourth and last test it is found that the company SIG-Sauer cannot deliver the promised quality in mass production.
On the basis of the results of these tests I no longer find it responsible to continue with this pistol. There is no longer enough confidence in the quality of the pistol or in the capacity of the manufacturer to improve the quality or safeguard it. All this brings a risk to the safety of officers on the street. I have now delegated a (legal) review to examine the possibility of coming to an agreement with one of the other suppliers that has had their pistol operationally tested in the procurement procedure.
The replacement of the current police service pistol will be delayed by at least six months due to this. There will be new tests and a new retraining planning will be made. Till that time the current pistol (the Walther P5) will stay in use with the Dutch Police. The Glock 17s will stay in use with the police SWAT teams. The safety and operational deployability of these pistols is so far still guaranteed.
I will provide you with more information as soon as possible.
Minister of Security and Justice,
I.W. Opstelten